AR no spark.

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 07 May 2010, 23:17

Ok, out riding up in Kielder the bike started to misfire so i stopped and changed the plug....no difference.When i throttled off it would cut out completely so i had to keep the revs up to get back to the van...pretty scary as i couldn't remember where i'd parked it and had to ride around for a bit!
Next day i tried a new plug and it started and ran ok.A few days later i tried it and it was misfiring again.When revving in neutral i noticed that the lights would switch off in time with the misfire.Now it won't start at all, no spark.
I've cleaned the kill switch and checked it for continuity.Side stand switch bypassed.Checked all connections.Not sure how to check generator output as info on this seems a bit vague.I'm sure there's a clue here by the way the lights were cutting out with the misfire.My pal has a mk2.Is all of the ignition system the same as my AR?Can i swap bits from his bike to try and find the fault?

Post by **fallenmikethebike** » 08 May 2010, 20:57

Hi Kramer,welcome, the symptoms you have described, don't sound like the ECU is the culprit.
Have you cleaned the HT cap where it attaches to the lead? it just unscrews, and is susceptible to moisture.
Its also worth bypassing the kill switch, as, although they look ok, they can still give trouble.
You need to check the output from the magneto to see if any voltage is being generated in the first place.
You mentioned riding in Kielder, has that been opened up now?, only I understood it was off limits, except to very specific events.
Mike

Post by **CR Mmmmm** » 09 May 2010, 21:49

Both times my A.R. lost it,s spark it was down to the rectifier. The first time the bike had the same symtons as yours, ie cutting out and lights dimming. Maybe the Honda rectifier starts to die slowly as opposed to the Electrex one that shits itself in a heartbeat. A.R,s except for the E.C.U. and the rectifier in my opinion are the best, they rock as Skidmark says, and are vewy weliable

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 09 May 2010, 22:11

Ok thanks guys.Now the questions are: How do i check generator voltage [readings/which wires to check], can i do this the easy way and swap my generator and rectifier with my pal's mk2 model?

My tax, mot, insurance is due soon and i'd like to get some riding in before forking out.

Post by **CR Mmmmm** » 09 May 2010, 22:32

The rectifier probably would,nt fit, connectors would be different. Have you tested your rectifier with a multimeter, do a search and someone has posted how to test it. Current should only flow one way, and a quick test will tell you this. If you don,t know how to do this, pm me and you can post it to me and I.ll get my brother to check it out. He,s red hot on electrics. Clever bugger has sussed out how the A.R. works.

Post by **CR Mmmmm** » 11 May 2010, 14:09

Kramer. Have you got the A.R. running yet. We need an update!

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 14 May 2010, 20:21

[quote="CR Mmmmm"]Kramer. Have you got the A.R. running yet. We need an update![/quote]

Well i've had a lot on at work but have the bike there with me so i've been tinkering with it in between jobs.
After looking through this forum for info i've managed to test the regulator/rectifier diodes and they seem to check out.I also checked the output DC voltage....when i kick the bike over it goes up to 12 volts.One thing puzzles me.When i kick the bike over the neutral light glows but none of the other lights do.I remember before that the headlamp would come on a bit or the indicators but now nothing.
Should there be a voltage reading from the black/yellow coil wire?
Sorry i forgot to answer the Kielder question. I'd like to know myself if any of it is open, i've heard some say they go there all the time.Don't think the part i was on was open officially.

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 21 May 2010, 21:27

Update :

Checked resistance of ignition pick ups and they seem to check out ok.
Removed generator and had a general poke around...checking wiring connections and cleaned that earth wire in there.
Checked the feeds to the ECU for continuity.
Connected a volt meter to the regulator output and with the plug out pushed the bike in second gear as fast as i could.The voltage went up to 14 volts and then dropped to 13 odd.Now it gets wierd!...as i'm pushing i can see the plug sparking so i stop and kick the bike over and it's still sparking.I fit the plug and the bike fires up and with one blip of the throttle it's dead again.I take out the plug and it's no spark again [voltmeter still 12 volts when kicking over though].
I then repeat the second gear push and the plug starts sparking again.I fit the plug and this time the bike runs for nearly a minute, then starts to misfire with the headlamp and indicators...but not the neutral light...switching of in time with the misfire.
Now i'm a bit knackered by this point and in need of a nice cool pint but go for the second gear push again.This time i have to bust a gut before it starts sparking and my pal who's watching from the front says that the headlamp suddenly came on as it started sparking and it's the same thing again...i get a spark when kicking it over...put the plug in and it fires up...only to die again.
I've also tried disconnecting all of the lights and switchgear.

Post by **fallenmikethebike** » 21 May 2010, 21:31

IMO, you have a random shortage going on there somewhere, Ignition, kill buttons are absolutely notorious for this, try bypassing it, just for peace of mind.
Mike

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 21 May 2010, 23:30

[quote="fallenmikethebike"]IMO, you have a random shortage going on there somewhere, Ignition, kill buttons are absolutely notorious for this, try bypassing it, just for peace of mind.
Mike[/quote]

I've bypassed kill switch, sidestand, ignition switch, disconnected the lighting equipment.I've used the wiring diagram to disconnect anything that isn't required to run the engine.Could do with a decent wiring diagram though.By the time i print it off it's barely legible.

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 22 May 2010, 18:25

Ok, i've figured out why the lights are switching off in time with the misfire.It seems that the main lights and indicators are switched on by the ECU via a relay.If the ECU is not powered up then the lights won't work.When i ran an earth to the relay the lights came on when i kicked it over. I know that there is power reaching the ECU and that it's grounded and i've checked all of its other wiring so i think the ECU could be faulty.
Two questions.....
If there was a problem with the ignition pick ups would the ECU still power up or does it need a signal first?
Is there anyone in the North East with an AR that i can try my ECU on?

Post by **knackeredMk1** » 22 May 2010, 18:35

I think, but I will stand correct my someone better informed that the front indicators are on all the time for Mk3s & ARs. If they are not then someone has 'fixed' them so they don't. This might be something to investigate

.

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 23 May 2010, 12:16

[quote="knackeredMk1"]I think, but I will stand correct my someone better informed that the front indicators are on all the time for Mk3s & ARs. If they are not then someone has 'fixed' them so they don't. This might be something to investigate :?: .[/quote]

My understanding from the wiring diagram is that the handlebar switchgear is supplied by the relay behind the headlamp.So the horn, lights and indicators will only operate when the ECU has switched on the relay...which it does by earthing it.The neutral and sidestand lamps are supplied straight from the reg/rec and will operate without the ECU even connected, which is the case on my bike.
The wiring on my bike is totally original, no part of the wiring has been modified.Even the sidestand switch, though disconnected was taped up and placed under the seat rather than bypassed.All of the plug connectors had been sealed with silicon and the contacts are in clean condition.I think any wiring fault would have to be inside the taped up harness but i can't see any damage to it anywhere.
I was wondering if the ECU on these needs the pulse from the generator, like some car ECU's need info from a sensor, before it 'fires up'.[if you get my drift].

Kramer · Post by **Kramer** » 31 May 2010, 19:18

Today i tried one of the pulse generators from forum member 'briangoo's' MK 2 on my AR and got a spark! It seems the rear one on mine is faulty.When i tried mine on bri's bike it started and then cut out and would not re-start, just like it does on mine.
Anyone got a pair of these they want to sell or know where i can get them?

AlanH · Post by **AlanH** » 31 May 2010, 20:29

I can dig out a part number - won't be 'til tomorrow though.

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